Transcript for Episode 12: Collective Pandemic Trauma: Meeting this Moment

Allison Sweatman & Andrea Coston

Share on facebook
Share on twitter
Share on linkedin
Share on pinterest

Here’s the transcript for episode 012 of the Trauma-Informed Everything podcast:

Allison Sweatman 0:00
I’m Allison

Andie Coston 0:01
and I’m Andie and welcome to trauma informed everything.

On this podcast we examine how trauma shapes our individual family and societal experiences.

Allison Sweatman 0:18
We demystify trauma and promote a world of trauma informed everything because like it or not trauma informed everything.

Andie Coston 0:26
As always remember our disclaimer, everything we say is for informational purposes only,

Allison Sweatman 0:32
and nothing on this show is meant to replace treatment from a licensed mental health professional. Thanks for listening and enjoy the show. Hi, friends, Allison here. Our Patreon community is growing and it is so exciting. Andie and I are sharing weekly resources meditations journal prompts, and even a morning show called allien. Andie in the mornin community, anyone? If you know, you know, anyway, we would love for you to join us. We’ve got three tiers that offer you fantastic value, whatever your budget, just go to patreon.com slash trauma informed everything. It’s spelled just like the show. So it’s easy to find. You can also find a link in the show notes right in your app. I’ll see you there. Welcome back to trauma informed everything today we are hoping to meet this moment. And by that I mean, this pandemic moment. Andie, how are you today?

Unknown Speaker 1:37
Uh, I can I coined a term. Oh, please do. I’m feeling a little pandemic.

Andie Coston 1:48
I think the clinical term would be dysregulated. But, you know, like people are saying that now we’re going to use 2020 as like a bad word like that was so 2020. I’m feeling a little pandemic. Yes,

Allison Sweatman 2:01
yes, yes. Well, that is completely valid and legitimate. And we’re gonna unpack a little bit of that today. We are in a moment, as a world as a planet of collective trauma. And the topic of collective trauma deserves not just the little primer that we’re going to give it in this episode. It deserves its whole series, to be honest. But we’re not going to do that, where we just want to, like I said, Today, meet this moment, talk a little bit about what we’re all going through, and then offer, hopefully some tips that will help you address what you’re feeling in this collective trauma moment. Yeah. Yeah. Have you done any research or learned about collective trauma? Before kind of the pandemic forced us all to learn about collective trauma?

Andie Coston 3:01
Somewhere, somewhat? Um, you know, I did I have done a lot of reading I 911. And one that really intrigues me is the world wars. It’s that was truly probably the first time our entire Earth has felt collective trauma together. Mm hmm. Whether you’re, you know, whether you were in a country that was in the war or not, there were very few parts of the world that were spared from that trauma. So that’s always interesting to me. This is collective trauma, you know, on a different level, we’re not fighting each other, we’re experiencing this together. So it’s, it’s slightly different.

Allison Sweatman 3:45
It is it’s different. One of the so I’m in a class about collective trauma right now. And one of our readings was about the, the victims are the survivors of a collective trauma, which I’m going to talk about in a moment, and then the perpetrators and kind of the reactions throughout history, like the four different ways that perpetrators of trauma like those who cause trauma and harm another population. The ways that they adapt to their identity as a perpetrator of trauma to an entire people group. You know, they’ll erase the memory completely of it, they’ll, they’ll rewrite the history books as though it never happened. That’s one of the things that is really common, and that I think we all can, you know, see that has happened in our history if you’re in the United States. But what’s difficult about this moment is that the perpetrator is a virus, and the perpetrator is not a person or another group of people. granted the virus is causing us to see the systemic issues and who is perpetuating those systemic issues and who has been throughout history, like it’s just bringing to light a lot of things that have lived in the dark for a really long time. And so we’re seeing that there have been people who have been causing trauma, kind of, without any accountability for a really long time. And now that’s just like, right in front of our face, you know?

Andie Coston 5:21
Yeah, it’s very interesting, because, you know, like I said earlier, we’re referring to this 2020 is a bad word. And everybody feels like this is these things, you know, we feel like we’re that punching bag clown, where you punch it, and it pops back up, hits you in the face, and you punch it and pops back up and hits you in the face. But a lot of these things were already in our systems, in our society, in our cultures, and we’re simply, the pandemic has lifted the veil. And it’s, you know, it’s Is it a blessing or a curse, man, a lot of people are asking that absolutely has, you know, it has shown how we need to change where we need to change. And it’s been very specific. And but yet, a lot of us are saying, you know, was it worth it? Or we’re having a trauma response, and we want to follow on and go back to the way things were not going to be possible?

Allison Sweatman 6:18
Yeah. Yeah, I think for those of us whether it’s because of our profession, where we encounter and study and attempt to alleviate the effects of oppression on individuals, like so that’s, that’s a lot of social work. You could say that, yes, social work, right. Yeah. And so you’re working with the systems, and or the individuals, hopefully, both to help them cope with it while trying to change the systems that caused the oppression. So those of us who’ve been working in any form of that kind of helping profession, whenever these things come along, like whether it’s a pandemic, or anything else, we grieve, but we also know that this is going to show us who we really are, you know, this is going to show us who we really are, it’s going to cause change, and hopefully it will cause good change. And in the meantime, we have to meet the needs of those who are suffering because of this pandemic. And so, we’re not saying that the pandemic is a good thing, we’re just saying that there is likelihood that at least a lot of people are waking up to pain that has that was being caused long before this pandemic happened at all. I know a lot of people, a lot of people, I actually read an article the other day about how Millennials are waking up to specifically the need for universal health care, because of the like, of course, the pandemic, you know, but I think that millennials are in an age range where it’s like, it could be like, it could be either or, and we kind of don’t don’t really know, you know, but this is making us all look at right in the eye and realize how devastating it is that there are people who die because they can’t afford their medications, you know, they can’t afford the treatment that they need. And so yeah, that’s just one example. universal health care is just one example. And that issue and system intersects with countless others in the world, you know, that are really being shown for for what they are now. So anyway, um, Andie, when we were talking about preparing for this episode, you said we’re finally coming to a place and when I say that, we’re talking about like today, like it’s mid September right now, we’re finally coming to a place where we have to sit with our emotions and deal with them. And this is all been going on since March. And I agree with you. And so why do you think this is happening in the middle of September?

Andie Coston 8:49
Well, September brings a lot of changes. We are coming out of summer, where, you know, summer in general, it’s just a more light season, people look forward to summer, the sun is out more we have an ability, even if we were in lockdown, we still had an ability to go outside and to do more things. And now fall is coming. And fall obviously is the start of school. So a lot of there’s a shift even you know, whether you’re distance learning homeschooling or sending your kids to school, there’s this shift in responsibility. Yeah. Your time management however, that’s going to look there’s the shift in the weather that brings you more inside Earth is literally turning and we are losing son and Son, you know, brings us that that extra vitamin that we need that creates happiness. So there’s there’s this interplay between all of these different things that are creating this shift. Um, you know, Mars is also in retrograde if you want to get all Woohoo.

Allison Sweatman 9:58
I think also, I mean, we Talk about seasonal affective disorder seasonal. Yeah, called sad, sad seasonal affective disorder. You know, like, there are more. There’s more depression that happens whenever the days are shorter. for so many reasons, all those factors, you know, converge, and now we’re gonna have that with the backdrop of a pandemic and an election.

Unknown Speaker 10:24
Yeah, yeah.

Allison Sweatman 10:26
And so just civil unrest, I feel I feel comfortable using the word

Andie Coston 10:30
civil unrest. Yeah, that’s really that is where we are, we are experiencing civil unrest in so many of us, you know, going back to how the perpetrator, you know, creates its own history rewrites, its own history, there are massive portions of generations of our Gen, especially like my generation, who the history books lie to us. Yeah. No, we thought I honestly, as a northern Michigan, white girl, um, you know, believed for a very long time that racism was dealt with. Mm hmm. And so now, because of that hiding of history in the systems, and so many of us have literally had our whole lives like, I think of, I think of like tossing things into the air, everything has been

Allison Sweatman 11:23
asked, and absolutely,

Andie Coston 11:25
the puzzle has been tossed into the air, and it’s falling back down. And, I mean, it was put together wrong in the first place. But we’re having this to shift through all of that, and, and come to find out that things that we believe so many people are having to adjust their very core belief systems in the middle of a pandemic. And it’s, it’s also difficult. Yeah,

Allison Sweatman 11:51
yeah, I think the puzzle was put together incorrectly, also painted white. So we’re having

Andie Coston 11:58
to like, you know, figure out what’s beneath it. Yeah. So the whole point of that saying, like, there is so much, there is so many layers to what this year has brought us. And it has been so painful. And because of the shift and season, because September, just brings responsibility with it. Like, no matter even if it was a normal year, August to September is always a hard shift, because we go from having fun mentally, like we’re in this. It’s summer, you know, party at Bernie’s house. And then we have to shift into, you know, oh, it’s fall, and we have to go to work. And our kids have to go to school. And we have to get back to a schedule. I mean, even in a normal year, there’s a shift, but this year is just like, got a megaphone.

Allison Sweatman 12:45
Yeah, yeah. Because there’s so much uncertainty about it. There’s, we’re we’ve all those of us who have sent children to school. We’ve all been told, don’t expect for whatever choice you made to last very long at all. Yeah. And it’s like, oh, okay, I’ll just go ahead and plan my whole life. Knowing that you, you professionals are telling me that it’s all going to come crashing down. And I’ll have to completely turn it upside down.

Andie Coston 13:12

Allison Sweatman 13:12
yeah, again,

Andie Coston 13:15
like the third time because we brought our kids home, and then we had to shift to summer, and then we had to shift back to school, and then we’re probably going to have to shift back home again.

Allison Sweatman 13:23
Yeah. Yep. So now that we’ve talked about kind of what this looks like, I want to talk about two things, one from kind of the research of this collective trauma researcher, and then one that’s just kind of something I thought of, and I asked a few of my professors about and was, was told, hey, you should do something with that. But I wasn’t pointed to toward any other research about it, I just kind of want to talk through it because we have talked about the nervous system a lot. So let’s start with this other guy, though. Collective trauma is a cataclysmic event that shatters the basic fabric of society. That is a quote by a researcher named Hershberger. And the following is a lot of what he says in the article that I am referencing, so he goes on to systematically delineate the process from collective trauma into collective memory. So right now we’re in the middle of collective trauma, but someday, we as a society, will all participate in forming a collective memory about 2020 like, I see, I see memes of like, people, whenever people mentioned 2020, like, like, this will be us. 10 years from now, people will mention 2020. And all these images will just come to mind and it’ll just be it’ll just be so wild. You know, like, yeah, that that collective memory we will as a society together form what What we remember what and and that is TBD. You know, like we really don’t know what our memories as a society about this year will be yet which is really scary

Unknown Speaker 15:14
to me.

Allison Sweatman 15:15
There’s so many more memories to me. We’re not done yet. It’s like camp.

Andie Coston 15:20
No. Um, so no. Like it’s like a roller coaster. Where like we just keep going down hit more hills. Yeah. And but in the worst thing is like the election is coming so we can see this massive Hill in the distance and we don’t know Are there more hills between here and there what’s gonna happen are the hills after that?

Allison Sweatman 15:39
Yep, yep, so all that to say we go from collective trauma to collective memory, we could talk a little bit about collective memory as it pertains to 911 like we we have as a society and it’s been shaped a lot by the way, our government has talked about 911 every year since then, the systems that came in place because of 911, the war that came because, quote, because of 911, like, all of these things shape our collective memory of that day. And so we’re gonna make this collective memory and then from there, the collective memory culminates and kind of negotiates among us, like we negotiate with one another among each other, to transform that collective memory into collective meaning, like, What did 911 mean to you? In 10 years, however many years, we will collectively say what meaning was made from this, this year, this pandemic, we say this pandemic, but what we really mean is everything that came about during the pandemic. And you know, the pandemic is almost like the backdrop of what we’re all experiencing right now. So

Unknown Speaker 16:54
hum in the background is

Allison Sweatman 16:56
the low hum, yes. So, so we’re, we’re gonna go from collective trauma to collective memory, and we’re going to collectively make meaning from that memory. And that could look different for all of us. But there’s still a sense of collective meaning making happening from it. I’ve seen that happen in a lot of groups that I’m in with moms who have children with disabilities, we see a lot of pain that children go through. And it’s not like we immediately if we skip the memory, if we, if we try to jump to meaning making a lot of times, that is insensitive. That is not that is disrespectful, you know, but there’s a lot of through the grieving process and the distance of just time, that we can come to a place where we really do make meaning out of what we all went through. And I see that happening in that group,

Andie Coston 17:49
we are all grasping to find meaning. Because when we find the meaning we can find hope. And it’s the hope that gives us the energy and the courage and the strength, whatever verb you want to use to continue and to keep moving forward. Because so many of us are struggling, like literally fighting for our lives struggling to continue. Mm

Allison Sweatman 18:17
hm. And that’s the that’s the last thing. So we go from this collective trauma to a memory, collective memory, to a collective meaning. And then eventually, we as a community can transform it into hope and opportunity. And there’s, there’s a lot, there are more readings out there. And maybe when we talk more about collective memory, in general, we’ll address them. But honestly, what then happens, I’ll take it even farther and say, that hope that we all need that opportunity that we need to create out of this, eventually, we don’t have to do it. Now. We’re in survival mode right now. But eventually, that will help us shape a sense of self as, as a society, like, like who we are our very identity is what is going to change through all of this. And I think, like we talked about, like, where does the election fit in this? I think, and I think that’s part of where it fits. Because we’ve seen a lot of people make statements, honestly, from both sides of the political spectrum and throughout, saying this election is about who we are as a nation. And I believe that’s true. But I also think that that is very fear inducing, because we don’t really know who we are when we’re in survival mode of this pandemic and everything. And honestly, honestly, regardless of the outcome of this election, we’re still not going to know who we are when I talk about creating a sense of self out of a sense of meaning out of collective memory, from On this trauma I’m talking about, like years from now, right? So like, no matter what happens on November 3,

Andie Coston 20:07
we will still not really know who we are as a nation there, you know, some people will celebrate others will not. But I’m talking about our very identity. Mm hmm. We won’t know it, because because we still have that low hum of this pandemic. And there’s still a ton of uncertainty. And so I’m really hesitant to put all my hope in those those results, you know, right. Yeah. And I think it’s interesting that you, you speak of our country, our country’s identity. Because there we are in a, we’re not just in a shift of our own personal identities, as we were talking about earlier and relearning and unlearning our entire country is doing the exact same thing. And while there are some very specific factions within that identity, and, you know, people are arguing about what this means and what that means. But as a whole, we’re shifting to so you know, usually when, you know, if we put ourselves in the in let’s, let’s talk about World War Two for a second, when we were going through that collective trauma, the nation had a very solid identity. This is who we are, this is why we’re fighting. And we’re all in it together. Whereas right now, the identity of our nation is so vague and up in the air, and it’s shifting. So all of us, as a community don’t have a quote unquote, larger identity to lean into or to look to it, you know, such as, like, you know, a parent would. In this, we’ve talked about how, you know, parents, if we can stay stable for our kids that will help our kids as they work through their struggles in the pandemic. But parents who do we look to? Mm hmm. And in like, you know, going back to that huge collective identity in the past in these, in this collect in collective traumas, we’ve been able to look to our president to our to our leaders, and we just don’t have that.

Unknown Speaker 22:14
We don’t, let’s move on to our for our tips.

Allison Sweatman 22:17
Yes, let’s move on to our tip. So Well, let me just do a little recap, because I think I’m going to be able to wrap it up in a way that’s a little bit more hopeful. So we’re in a moment of collective trauma, I think we have, we have successfully communicated to all of you that we are in a place of collective trauma, as a society that is happening. And, again, the definition of collective trauma, a cataclysmic event that shatters the basic fabric of society. So what we do what happens whenever a people group or a population experience collective trauma is we go from experiencing it and surviving through it to remembering it and forming a collective memory. And eventually, that memory will be negotiated into a meaning like we will make meaning from this, which will help us be hopeful for the future. And we’re not there yet. But hopefully, that trajectory that outline will help you and meet you in this moment. Because we we know that we’re not alone. Andie and I are not alone when we talk about all this.

Andie Coston 23:29
All this? All this? Just put it is it Yes. Yeah, gestures,

Unknown Speaker 23:34
vaguely gestures vaguely at

Allison Sweatman 23:37
world. So what we wanted to do, again, to be hopeful here and to reference, like what you can do right now, we are in survival mode. But we don’t want you to feel like you don’t have any tools in your tool belt. So we have some tips for you. So first tip is go listen to our sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system episode, because we talk a lot about getting into your parasympathetic parasympathetic nervous system. And that is how you regulate that is where you are going to want to be in this season. So listen to that episode. We have lots of really good tips there. And Andie, what other tips do we have?

Andie Coston 24:24
Mine is going to be go listen to the CO regulation episode. Oh,

Allison Sweatman 24:28
yeah. Okay, just listen to our whole podcasts first, right? Just

Unknown Speaker 24:31
start from the beginning.

Unknown Speaker 24:34
If you’ve already listened, you can listen twice.

Andie Coston 24:38
Um, but but for real, those those episodes are incredibly important because, for me personally, one of the hardest things for me to do, but also the one of the most necessary was to judge if I needed to regulate myself, or if I needed to co regulate. And it’s this very intricate balance. And could switch at any moment in time, you know? Do I need to cuddle with one of my kids and breathe deep together? Do we need to watch a movie? Or do I need to go to the grocery store by myself? Mm hmm.

Allison Sweatman 25:12
Yeah. Yeah. That that kind of assessing of, do I need a moment to myself? Or do I need the presence of another human which this changes, this will be very different, whether you are single and live alone, or you have many children, like Andie, and you, you, you might need more, you might need to create like, out those alone moments. Whereas a person who lives alone is like, absolutely not. That’s not helpful for me. But really what we all need to be doing is dropping in to our bodies, being in our bodies living as embodied people, and figuring out what do our systems need? Like we know we’re going through some stuff right now. But asking ourselves even just that one little binary of Do I need to be alone to regulate myself? Or do I need to find another being because it doesn’t just have to be a human but being it can be it can be a dog,

Andie Coston 26:10
or it could be

Allison Sweatman 26:12
a little quirky? A Corgi, I just got a Corgi by the way. That’s why we’re specifying quirky. So

Andie Coston 26:18
I know you call him Benji, but he’s been to me. I don’t I think it’s because I like human names for dogs. I was like, man, yeah, never I see him.

Allison Sweatman 26:27
But we like Ben too. We really can’t decide whether to call him Ben. Or Benji. So we’ve been going back and forth. And we’ll we’ll let everyone know where we settle.

Andie Coston 26:36
Well, it could be like, you know, my we have long john custard is one of our Wiener dogs. Um, and when he’s fun and playful, his Johnny, when he’s in trouble. It’s Jonathan.

Allison Sweatman 26:48
Jonathan. Yeah, that’s what we’ve said is we’ll call him Benjamin, whenever he’s in trouble. What a sweet boy, I can’t wait to go snuggle him right after this. Okay, right after that, it’s gonna go

Andie Coston 26:59
co regulate.

Allison Sweatman 27:01
So another tip that we want to share is physical regulation. So what’s happening is, and this might be happening to you, and you just don’t know it is in the morning, you you might be waking up and you know, your cortisol levels. That’s a hormone that you want to have a lot of in the morning. But a lot of us for many reasons, mainly stress are not in a good place with our quarters, all right now. And so you might be waking up immediately grabbing that coffee, which doesn’t help but you need it. So you grab the coffee, first thing, and you literally just live in survival mode. From there, like you’re putting out fires all day long. That’s what a lot of us are doing right now. And you get to the end of the day, and what you might need. And this is not like Andie, you can add another tip to this. But what you might need to do at the end of the day, is have a dance party to discharge the energy. This is it’s literal energy that’s building up in your body. So we might need to discharge the energy that is trapped in our body, right, and that energy is coming from stress. And sometimes, so maybe you need to stretch, maybe you need to go for a run, maybe you need to do something that looks a lot like exercise. But it doesn’t have to be exercise. I’m not telling you to get on an exercise plan, I’m telling you do something to discharge the stressful energy that’s in your body. For us. We haven’t been doing this very much lately. But early in the pandemic, we had a dance party at the end of the day as a family. And it was so helpful. I heard someone use that word discharged that energy that has been building up and I was like that is exactly what our whole family needs. So, um, so that will help you regulate physically, at least so that after that, maybe you’ll have a more restful evening, right? So consider that for physical regulation. What do you have for physical regulation at?

Andie Coston 28:57
Well, I describe it the best way I can, you know, I don’t. The best way I can describe the physical portion is I constantly tell people that your body is like the Black Panther suit, it collects that kinetic energy, that negative energy in it stores it up until it can’t hold it anymore, and it will come out. If you don’t find a way to release that energy, whether it’s slowly throughout the day or having a dance party at night or going for walks. Take your lunch break, walk around the block jumping jacks. You know working out is if you want to work out go for it. I’m not one of those people. I’m hiking, you know wrestling with your kids. If you don’t find ways to release that energy, it will come out sideways in it’ll look like anger and frustration and yelling or any sort of big physical release. It could look like a panic attack and So it’s incredibly important that we just, I mean, I think it’s more fun to think of yourself walking around in a in a superhero costume as you collect this energy and finding little ways to expel that. And for some people that may be being creative painting, any sort of physical movement is going to release that energy. And so for us that looked like we had danced parties to we went for a lot of hikes in the woods. I took my kids to the park, riding bikes, wrestling with them. That was a huge one because a wrestling

Allison Sweatman 30:39

Andie Coston 30:40
Oh, my goodness, it’s crazy up in here, I run a a, what do they call that like a farm for the WWE? Well, you know, like, baseball farms team farm team farming, we’re like you Yeah, it’s like, you know, yeah, group, group B is over here. Are that were the ag B list actors who are waiting for our turn in the WWE. I’m raising these people.

Allison Sweatman 31:10
Yes, so find a physical regulation outlet. And it doesn’t have to be that you know, that you can feel that, oh, I need to move my body. It’s just, if you think I’ve had a lot of stressful inputs throughout my day, consider doing something as an outlet to discharge that energy. I just want to say to a lot of this comes back to the body, right? So we’re talking about, even when we were saying, decide if you if you need to be alone, or if you need to co regulate when we’re talking about which one of those will actually regulate your nervous system, we’re asking you to ask your body, which one of those will regulate my nervous system? And when we talk about physical regulation, obviously, we’re talking about the body. So if you’re like, I have no idea what you’re talking about Allison, and let me tell you a year and a half ago, I would have been like, okay, I’ll just ask my body that, you know, but no, for me now, it’s like, that’s how I survive is the way that my therapist and I, the language that we use is drop in, like dropping into my body and, quote, asking my body questions, you know, I’m finding intuition through what my body says that I think I’m just thinking about how many people are going to be like Allison with the woowoo right now, but it’s fine. So

Andie Coston 32:32
it is so real, it’s real. It’s real. And it’s, it’s simply, you know, if you want to make it less woowoo, just everybody literally right now, Mm hmm. Pause the podcast, take a second, close your eyes. And just feel what let your mind tell you what your body is feeling in, you know, you may come back with I feel good, or I feel pain in my right knee or my stomach feels tight, my back feels tight. Just pay attention to what your body what signals your body’s trying to give you. It’s, you know, like I was in physical therapy the other day in my, my PT guy was like, you know, as they do in physical therapy, they wrap you up like a pretzel to see if anything hurts. And I said, that feels like good pain. And he looked at me and he said, There is no such thing as good pain, Andrea?

Allison Sweatman 33:24
And, of course a PT said that,

Andie Coston 33:26
of course you’re right. And so it just made me realize that you’re my body is trying to send me signals, even though I’m trying to heal it through stretching it and moving it and I will have pain through that. That’s my body saying changes are happening. Danger will Robinson.

Allison Sweatman 33:47
Yeah, well, and so if you are a person who’s like, I have no idea what you’re talking about, or how to do any of that. Here’s what I’ll say. Do something once a day that reminds you, you have a body. Like a like there are so many different ways to do it. You can work it into your regular routine. One tip I give people is in the shower, in the shower. It’s really easy to notice body sensations because you have water coming down on you. So notice, it’s just about noticing that’s that’s all it is. Start there start start with noticing what it feels like to have the water hit you on your shoulder. Oh, wow, I noticed my shoulder Have you thought about the fact that you have a shoulder like ever? And so like take a moment to do that. Take a moment to do that. Just be there, like be fully there. And that’s what we mean that’s kind of the beginning of being embodied is reminding yourself that you have a body.

Andie Coston 34:39
Mm hmm. It sounds I know it sounds silly but our our society our culture wants to take away our bodies and use them as machines. That’s the reason why we don’t have affordable health care. And you don’t get longer than 15 minute breaks and work.

Allison Sweatman 34:58
Your body is not a machine It is not.

Andie Coston 35:01
No, it is a beautiful creation that was woven together by God or your mom or however you want to look at it. Work intricate, beautiful creation. Stop thinking of yourself as a robot.

That’s our show for today. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment to rate and review it on your podcast platform.

Allison Sweatman 35:26
Yes, please do this helps others find the show and we would be really, really grateful. So if you have any questions for us, please send them to us at trauma informed everything@gmail.com and we just might answer them in the future during our q&a segment.

Andie Coston 35:40
Thanks for joining us and remember trauma informed everything and we really do mean everything

Transcribed by https://otter.ai